handle sitting on the stage and having somebody call him on his lies? i mean, that's ridiculous. >> great point. karen, what's more disrespectful? lying to the american people or biden, the vice president, interrupting paul ryan? >> well, and -- lying to the american people, but i can understand, you know, remember, there's this double standard. it's very inconvenient for these guys when someone is able to come to them with the facts and it's not something that fox news ever does with these guys. they let them get away with murder basically. i mean, how many times did biden say, i've got the letters? you're opposed to the stimulus, here are the letters when you asked for it. i was there with kennedy -- sorry, i was there with reagan. they did have details. you don't have details. the problem ryan had and this is, again, your point at the top was right, that's how you know he won is that now they're whining about the style and they can't argue on the substance. >> yeah. he was smiling too much. you know, he just can't smile in these debates. >> i mean, what is that?